From 43b472f83fa7cb468e157e133f9dcf4cc391171b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Bruce Momjian Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:24:56 +0000 Subject: [PATCH] Move 2phase discussion to 7.5 queue, not TODO.detail. --- doc/TODO.detail/2phase | 1331 ------------------------------------------------ 1 file changed, 1331 deletions(-) delete mode 100644 doc/TODO.detail/2phase diff --git a/doc/TODO.detail/2phase b/doc/TODO.detail/2phase deleted file mode 100644 index 549cd5a628..0000000000 --- a/doc/TODO.detail/2phase +++ /dev/null @@ -1,1331 +0,0 @@ -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45196@postgresql.org Thu Oct 9 21:02:52 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9A12Sd24438 - for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:02:51 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 65DB0CF4A2C; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:02:19 -0300 (ADT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01F8D1B50F - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:02:07 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 76113-08 - for ; - Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:01:21 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from ganymede.hub.org (u173n10.eastlink.ca [24.224.173.10]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C741D1B4EE - for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:01:18 -0300 (ADT) -Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) - id 585F835332; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:00:10 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) - by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 4CD8F35320; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:00:10 -0300 (ADT) -Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:00:10 -0300 (ADT) -From: "Marc G. Fournier" -X-X-Sender: scrappy@ganymede.hub.org -To: Tatsuo Ishii -cc: andrew@libertyrms.info, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -In-Reply-To: <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> -Message-ID: <20031009215935.S28590@ganymede.hub.org> -References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel> - <20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - - - -On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: - -> > Yes. I don't think that 2PC is a solution for robustness in face of -> > network failure. It's too slow, to begin with. Some sort of -> > multi-master system is very desirable for network failures, &c., but -> > I don't think anybody does active/hot standby with 2PC any more; the -> > performance is too bad. -> -> I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think -> Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for -> PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow. - -Where does Satoshi's implementation sit right now? Will it patch to v7.4? -Can it provide us with a base to work from, or is it complete? - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate - subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your - message can get through to the mailing list cleanly - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45212@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 00:22:09 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (svr4.postgresql.org [64.117.224.192]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9A4M7d22170 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:22:07 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr4.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 3EE8D1CB47E5; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:22:02 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3959D1B517 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:21:49 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 22978-01 - for ; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:21:04 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9041D1B52E - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:21:03 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] (may be forged)) - by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9A4L3Qh008720 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:21:03 GMT - (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) -Received: (from news@localhost) - by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h9A4CJ7w007607 - for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:12:19 GMT -X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.hackers -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel> <20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> -From: Christopher Browne -X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? -X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ -X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne -Message-ID: -User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Reasonable Discussion, linux) -Cancel-Lock: sha1:Bu9MHyjwMgreAAWr2UkPGXHzz04= -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -Lines: 40 -Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 23:53:46 -0400 -X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca -Organization: Bell Sympatico -To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - -The world rejoiced as t-ishii@sra.co.jp (Tatsuo Ishii) wrote: -> I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think -> Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for -> PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow. - -I'm tired of it for a different reason, namely that there are "use -cases" where speed is not _relevant_. The REAL problem that is taking -place is that people are talking past each other. - -- Some say, "It's too slow; no point in doing it." - - The fact that it may be too slow _for them_ means they probably - shouldn't use it. I somehow doubt that there are Vastly Faster - alternatives waiting in the wings. - -- The other problem that gets pointed out: "2PC is inherently - fragile, and prone to deadlock." - - Again, those that _need_ to use 2PC will forcibly need to address - those concerns in the way they manage their systems. - - Those that can't afford the fragility are not 'customers' for use of - 2PC. And, pointing back to the speed controversy, it is not at all - obvious that there is any other alternative for handling distributed - processing that _totally addresses_ the concerns about fragility. - -Those that can't afford these costs associated with 2PC will simply -Not Use It. - -Probably in much the same way that most people _aren't_ using -replication. And most people _aren't_ using PL/R. And most people -_aren't_ using any number of the contributed things. - -If 2PC gets implemented, that simply means that there will be another -module that some will be interested in, and which many people won't -bother using. Which shouldn't seem to be a particularly big deal. --- -"aa454","@","freenet.carleton.ca" -http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/ -The way to a man's heart is with a broadsword. - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? - - http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45350@postgresql.org Tue Oct 14 12:34:46 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (182.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.182] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9EGYid02191 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:34:45 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71]) - by svr5.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 3DE8872EE24; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:33:48 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2BAD1B541 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:33:39 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 26706-05 - for ; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:32:51 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from mx-00.sil.at (mx-00.sil.at [62.116.68.196]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274E4D1B517 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:32:49 -0300 (ADT) -Received: (qmail-ldap/ctrl 40676 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 05:32:48 -0000 -Received: from unknown (HELO waste.silverserver.co.at) ([194.152.178.7]) (envelope-sender ) - by mx-00.sil.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP - for ; 10 Oct 2003 05:32:48 -0000 -Received: from cybertec.at (vie-213-129-225-105.async.sil.at [213.129.225.105]) - by waste.silverserver.co.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5WhNj032622; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:32:44 +0200 -Message-ID: <3F86460B.6030905@cybertec.at> -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:39:23 +0200 -From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans-J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nig?= -User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020826 -X-Accept-Language: en-us, en -MIME-Version: 1.0 -To: "Marc G. Fournier" -cc: Tatsuo Ishii , andrew@libertyrms.info, - pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel> <20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> <20031009215935.S28590@ganymede.hub.org> -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - ->>I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think ->>Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for ->>PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow. -> -> -> Where does Satoshi's implementation sit right now? Will it patch to v7.4? -> Can it provide us with a base to work from, or is it complete? - - -It is not ready yet. -You can find it at ... - -http://snaga.org/pgsql/ - -It is based on 7.3 - - * the 2-phase commit protocol (precommit and commit) - * the multi-master replication using 2PC - * distributed transaction (distributed query) - -current work - - * restarting (from 2nd phase) when the session is disconnected in -2nd phase (XLOG stuffs) - * XA compliance - -future work - - * hot failover and recovery in PostgreSQL cluster - * data partitioning on different servers - - -I have compiled it a while ago. -Seems to be pretty nice :). - - Hans - - --- -Cybertec Geschwinde u Schoenig -Ludo-Hartmannplatz 1/14, A-1160 Vienna, Austria -Tel: +43/2952/30706 or +43/660/816 40 77 -www.cybertec.at, www.postgresql.at, kernel.cybertec.at - - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45361@postgresql.org Tue Oct 14 12:36:29 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (182.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.182] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9EGaOd02587 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:36:27 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71]) - by svr5.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id DE0D872EF5B; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:35:20 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E506D1B528 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:41:53 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 33519-04 - for ; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:41:05 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from mx-00.sil.at (mx-00.sil.at [62.116.68.196]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15845D1B541 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:41:00 -0300 (ADT) -Received: (qmail-ldap/ctrl 41629 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 05:40:59 -0000 -Received: from unknown (HELO waste.silverserver.co.at) ([194.152.178.7]) (envelope-sender ) - by mx-00.sil.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP - for ; 10 Oct 2003 05:40:59 -0000 -Received: from cybertec.at (vie-213-129-225-110.async.sil.at [213.129.225.110]) - by waste.silverserver.co.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9A5etNj000228; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:40:56 +0200 -Message-ID: <3F8647F7.7000509@cybertec.at> -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:47:35 +0200 -From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans-J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nig?= -User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020826 -X-Accept-Language: en-us, en -MIME-Version: 1.0 -To: Bruce Momjian -cc: Peter Eisentraut , - Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -References: <200310091442.h99Eg3R29404@candle.pha.pa.us> -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - ->>Why would you spent time on implementing a mechanism whose ultimate ->>benefit is supposed to be increasing reliability and performance, when you ->>already realize that it will have to lock up at the slightest sight of ->>trouble? There are better mechanisms out there that you can use instead. -> -> -> If you want cross-server transactions, what other methods are there that -> are more reliable? It seems network unreliability is going to be a -> problem no matter what method you use. -> - - -I guess we need something like PITR to make this work because otherwise -I cannot see a way to get in sync again. -Maybe I should call the desired mechanism "Entire cluster back to -transaction X recovery". -Did anybody hear about PITR recently? - -How else would you recover from any kind of problem? -No matter what you are doing network reliability will be a problem so we -have to live with it. -Having some "going back to something consistent" is necessary anyway. -People might argue now that committed transactions might be lost. If -people knew which ones, its ok. 90% of all people will understand that -in case of a crash something evil might happen. - - Hans - --- -Cybertec Geschwinde u Schoenig -Ludo-Hartmannplatz 1/14, A-1160 Vienna, Austria -Tel: +43/2952/30706 or +43/660/816 40 77 -www.cybertec.at, www.postgresql.at, kernel.cybertec.at - - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your - joining column's datatypes do not match - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45354@postgresql.org Tue Oct 14 12:35:50 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (70.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.70] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9EGZmd02374 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:35:49 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71]) - by svr4.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id A59181CB4CC8; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:35:03 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFC7D1B4E2 - for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:41:02 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 87949-06 - for ; - Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:40:28 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8021D1B4EF - for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:40:11 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) - id 1A8iKO-0003GE-00 - for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:40:16 +0200 -X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ -To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) - by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) - id 1A7sHs-0001ff-00 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:06:12 +0200 -Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) - id 1A7sHs-0006Wa-00 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:06:12 +0200 -From: Heikki Linnakangas -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:06:11 +0300 -Lines: 13 -Message-ID: -References: <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> - <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us> -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org -X-X-Sender: hlinnaka@kosh.hut.fi -In-Reply-To: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us> -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - -On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: - -> Agreed. Let's get it into 7.5 and see it in action. If we need to -> adjust it, we can, but right now, we need something for distributed -> transactions, and this seems like the logical direction. - -I've started working on two-phase commits last week, and the very -basic stuff is now working. Still a lot of bugs though. - -I posted the stuff I've put together to patches-list. I'd appreciate any -comments. - -- Heikki - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45235@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 15:27:57 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (svr4.postgresql.org [64.117.224.192]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9AJRud06174 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:27:57 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr4.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id E57971CB4834; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:27:46 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E14D1B502 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:27:28 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 91104-06 - for ; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:26:40 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from ns1.oak.forus.or.jp (ns1.oak.forus.or.jp [210.190.22.53]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3222D1B528 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:26:36 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from athena (W173177.ppp.dion.ne.jp [210.198.173.177]) - by ns1.oak.forus.or.jp (8.12.8p1/8.11.3) with SMTP id h9B4dDdV008901; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:39:14 +0900 -Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:26:26 +0900 -From: Satoshi Nagayasu -To: Andrew Sullivan -cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Message-ID: <20031011042626.6019bff2.pgsql@snaga.org> -In-Reply-To: <20031010190255.GT16336@libertyrms.info> -References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> - <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel> - <20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> - <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> - <20031010190255.GT16336@libertyrms.info> -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - - -Andrew Sullivan wrote: -> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:46:35AM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: -> > Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for -> > PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow. -> -> If someone has a fast implementation, so much the better. I'm not -> opposed to fast implementations! - -The pgbench results of my experimental 2PC implementation -and plain postgresql are available. - -PostgreSQL 7.3 - http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-REL7_3.log - -Experimental 2PC in PostgreSQL 7.3 - http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-TPC0_0_2.log - -I can't see a grave overhead from this comparison. - -> -> A -> -> -- -> ---- -> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street -> Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada -> M2P 2A8 -> +1 416 646 3304 x110 -> -> -> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend -> - - --- -NAGAYASU Satoshi - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? - - http://archives.postgresql.org - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45240@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 18:29:40 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (svr4.postgresql.org [64.117.224.192]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9AMTdd18233 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:29:40 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr4.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 504471CB4652; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:29:32 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DADED1B53E - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:29:13 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 15392-08 - for ; - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:28:29 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from voyager.corporate.connx.com (voyager.corporate.connx.com [65.212.159.131]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A857CD1B4E9 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:28:25 -0300 (ADT) -Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; - charset="us-ascii" -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:28:05 -0700 -Message-ID: -X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 -Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Thread-Index: AcOPezZr87PXbIlLRH6225JV2yf6zgAAc1Ig -From: "Dann Corbit" -To: "Satoshi Nagayasu" , - "Andrew Sullivan" -cc: -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by candle.pha.pa.us id h9AMTdd18233 -Status: OR - -> -----Original Message----- -> From: Satoshi Nagayasu [mailto:pgsql@snaga.org] -> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:26 PM -> To: Andrew Sullivan -> Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -> -> Andrew Sullivan wrote: -> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:46:35AM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: -> > > Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for -> > > PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow. -> > -> > If someone has a fast implementation, so much the better. I'm not -> > opposed to fast implementations! -> -> The pgbench results of my experimental 2PC implementation -> and plain postgresql are available. -> -> PostgreSQL 7.3 -> http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-REL7_3.log -> -> Experimental 2PC in PostgreSQL 7.3 -> http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-TPC0_0_2.log -> -> I can't see a grave overhead from this comparison. - -2PC is absolutely essential when you have to have both parts of the -transaction complete for a logical unit of work. For a project that -needs it, if you don't have it you will be forced to go to another tool, -or perform lots of custom programming to work around it. - -If you have 2PC and it is ten times slower than without it, you will -still need it for projects requiring that capability. - -Now, a good model to start with is a very good idea. So some discussion -and analysis is a good thing. From the looks of it, Satoshi Nagayasu -has done a very good job. Having a functional 2PC would be a huge -feather in the cap of PostgreSQL. - -IMO-YMMV - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45242@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 23:22:31 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (svr5.postgresql.org [64.117.225.181]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9B3MUd13414 - for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:22:30 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr5.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 9C48072DCAF; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 03:22:23 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547CED1B55D - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 03:21:58 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 74332-03 - for ; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:21:15 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB54CD1B51D - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:21:10 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] (may be forged)) - by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B3LAQh017763 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 03:21:10 GMT - (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) -Received: (from news@localhost) - by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h9B3JDdq017363 - for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 03:19:13 GMT -X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.hackers -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -References: -From: Christopher Browne -X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? -X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ -X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne -Message-ID: -User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Reasonable Discussion, linux) -Cancel-Lock: sha1:YeipjZkXVBbpujQ/QjmB13rksFQ= -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -Lines: 52 -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:54:31 -0400 -X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca -Organization: Bell Sympatico -To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - -Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whenDCorbit@connx.com ("Dann Corbit")wrote: ->> I can't see a grave overhead from this comparison. -> -> 2PC is absolutely essential when you have to have both parts of the -> transaction complete for a logical unit of work. For a project that -> needs it, if you don't have it you will be forced to go to another -> tool, or perform lots of custom programming to work around it. -> -> If you have 2PC and it is ten times slower than without it, you will -> still need it for projects requiring that capability. - -Just so. - -I would be completely unsurprised if an attempt to use 2PC to support -generalized "multimaster replication" would involve 10-fold slowdowns -as compared to having all the activity take place on one database. - -Which would imply that 2PC is not a tool that may be appropriately -used to naively do replication. But that should not come as any grand -surprise. - -To each tool the right job, and to each job the right tool... - -There seems to be enough room for there to be evidence both of 2PC -being useful for improving performance, and for it to cut -performance: - - - TPC benchmarks often specify the inclusion of Tuxedo as a - component; the combination of vendors would surely NOT put it - on the list if it were not an aid to performance; - - - There is also indication that there can be a cost, notably in the - form of the concerns of deadlock, but it should also be obvious - that slow network links would lead to _hideous_ increases in - latency. - -As you say, even if there is a substantial cost, it's still worthwhile -if a project needs it. - -> Now, a good model to start with is a very good idea. So some -> discussion and analysis is a good thing. From the looks of it, -> Satoshi Nagayasu has done a very good job. Having a functional 2PC -> would be a huge feather in the cap of PostgreSQL. - -It would seem so. I look forward to seeing how this progresses. --- -wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','acm.org'). -http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxdistributions.html -"XFS might (or might not) come out before the year 3000. As far as -kernel patches go, SGI are brilliant. As far as graphics, especially -OpenGL, go, SGI is untouchable. As far as filing systems go, a -concussed doormouse in a tarpit would move faster." -- jd on Slashdot - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45243@postgresql.org Sat Oct 11 00:39:02 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (svr5.postgresql.org [64.117.225.181]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9B4d0d19644 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:39:01 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr5.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 141E272E6B5; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:38:54 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A3AD1B4E3 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:38:35 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 76273-09 - for ; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:37:54 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from voyager.corporate.connx.com (voyager.corporate.connx.com [65.212.159.131]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C599D1B4FE - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:37:49 -0300 (ADT) -Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; - charset="us-ascii" -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:53 -0700 -X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 -Message-ID: -Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Thread-Index: AcOPp2jLw1yNPbdnRFGP5HwssCpXCwACbcFw -From: "Dann Corbit" -To: "Christopher Browne" , -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by candle.pha.pa.us id h9B4d0d19644 -Status: OR - -Why not apply the effort to something already done and compatibly -licensed? - -This: -http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html - -Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed: -http://dog.intalio.com/license.html - -Transaction monitor. - -"Overview -The OpenORB Transaction Service is a very scalable transaction monitor -which also provides several extensions like XA management, a management -interface to control all transaction processes and a high reliable -recovery system. - -By coordinating OpenORB and OpenORB Transaction Service, you provide a -reliable and powerful foundation for building large scalable distributed -applications. - -Datasheet -The OpenORB Transaction Service is a fully compliant implementation of -the OMG Transaction Service specification. -The OpenORB Transaction Service features are : - Management of distributed transactions with a two phase commit -protocol - Sub Transactions management ( nested transactions ) - Propagation of the transaction context between CORBA objects - Management of distributed transactions propagation through databases -with the XA protocol - Automatic logs to be able to make recovery in case of failures - Can be used as a transaction initiator or subordinate - High-performance, multiple thread architecture - Developed with POA - Provides a management interface to control all transactions - Full support of JTA - JDBC pooling and automatic resource enlistment - - -Download -To download the OpenORB Transaction Service, do one of the following : - CVS : you can use CVS to grab the sources directly. - FTP : you get either a CVS snapshot or a prebuilt version -To use one of these possibilities, go to the Download Services page. - -ChangeLog -August 15th 2001. Version 1.2.0. - Changed the transaction client side to support late binding to the -transaction monitor. - Bug fixed in the transactional client interceptor. This bug was due to -a change in the OpenORB behavior concerning the slot - - -To get previous change log, please refer to the CHANGELOG file available -within this service distribution." - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? - - http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45244@postgresql.org Sat Oct 11 01:23:16 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (svr5.postgresql.org [64.117.225.181]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9B5NFd23659 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:23:15 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr5.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id A052972E6E6; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:23:07 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E090D1B4E1 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:22:45 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 87418-02 - for ; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:22:03 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from voyager.corporate.connx.com (voyager.corporate.connx.com [65.212.159.131]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1756CD1B4FC - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:21:58 -0300 (ADT) -Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; - charset="us-ascii" -Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:22:03 -0700 -X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 -Message-ID: -Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Thread-Index: AcOPp2jLw1yNPbdnRFGP5HwssCpXCwACbcFwAAGb7AA= -From: "Dann Corbit" -To: "Dann Corbit" , "Christopher Browne" , - -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by candle.pha.pa.us id h9B5NFd23659 -Status: OR - -Here is a sourceforge version of the same thing -http://openorb.sourceforge.net/ - -> -----Original Message----- -> From: Dann Corbit -> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:38 PM -> To: Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -> -> -> Why not apply the effort to something already done and -> compatibly licensed? -> -> This: -> http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html -> -> Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed: -> http://dog.intalio.com/license.html -> -> Transaction monitor. -> -> "Overview -> The OpenORB Transaction Service is a very scalable -> transaction monitor which also provides several extensions -> like XA management, a management interface to control all -> transaction processes and a high reliable recovery system. -> -> By coordinating OpenORB and OpenORB Transaction Service, you -> provide a reliable and powerful foundation for building large -> scalable distributed applications. -> -> Datasheet -> The OpenORB Transaction Service is a fully compliant -> implementation of the OMG Transaction Service specification. -> The OpenORB Transaction Service features are : -> Management of distributed transactions with a two phase -> commit protocol -> Sub Transactions management ( nested transactions ) -> Propagation of the transaction context between CORBA objects -> Management of distributed transactions propagation through -> databases with the XA protocol -> Automatic logs to be able to make recovery in case of failures -> Can be used as a transaction initiator or subordinate -> High-performance, multiple thread architecture -> Developed with POA -> Provides a management interface to control all transactions -> Full support of JTA -> JDBC pooling and automatic resource enlistment -> -> -> Download -> To download the OpenORB Transaction Service, do one of the -> following : -> CVS : you can use CVS to grab the sources directly. -> FTP : you get either a CVS snapshot or a prebuilt version -> To use one of these possibilities, go to the Download Services page. -> -> ChangeLog -> August 15th 2001. Version 1.2.0. -> Changed the transaction client side to support late binding -> to the transaction monitor. -> Bug fixed in the transactional client interceptor. This bug -> was due to a change in the OpenORB behavior concerning the slot -> -> -> To get previous change log, please refer to the CHANGELOG -> file available within this service distribution." -> -> ---------------------------(end of -> broadcast)--------------------------- -> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? -> - http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your - joining column's datatypes do not match - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45247@postgresql.org Sat Oct 11 08:38:03 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (svr4.postgresql.org [64.117.224.192]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9BCc1d20782 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:38:01 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) - by svr4.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id E4FAE1CB46A9; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:37:48 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A364D1B4EF - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:37:37 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 48999-05 - for ; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:36:55 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from smtpzilla2.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla2.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.138]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F175D1B4E1 - for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:36:47 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.3.11]) - by smtpzilla2.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BCaQMW052048; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:36:30 +0200 (CEST) -Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (jtv@localhost.xs4all.nl [127.0.0.1]) - by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BCaPpX097890; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:36:25 +0200 (CEST) - (envelope-from jtv@xs4all.nl) -Received: (from jtv@localhost) - by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h9BCaPPT097880; - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:36:25 +0200 (CEST) - (envelope-from jtv) -Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:36:25 +0200 -From: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" -To: Dann Corbit -cc: Christopher Browne , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Message-ID: <20031011123624.GA97612@xs4all.nl> -Mail-Followup-To: Dann Corbit , - Christopher Browne , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -References: -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -Content-Disposition: inline -In-Reply-To: -User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - -On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:37:53PM -0700, Dann Corbit wrote: -> Why not apply the effort to something already done and compatibly -> licensed? -> -> This: -> http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html -> -> Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed: -> http://dog.intalio.com/license.html -> -> Transaction monitor. - -I'd say this is complementary, not an alternative to 2PC implementation -issues. - -The transaction monitor lives on the other side of the problem. 2PC is -needed in the database _so that_ the transaction monitor can do its job. - -That said, having a 3-tier model is probably a good idea if distributed -transaction management is what we want. :-) - - -Jeroen - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate - subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your - message can get through to the mailing list cleanly - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45298@postgresql.org Mon Oct 13 15:55:48 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from www.postgresql.com (209.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.209] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9DJtkd05408 - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:55:47 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71]) - by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP - id B7324CF5197; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:55:34 -0300 (ADT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.2]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFF7D1B4FE - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:55:32 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [200.46.204.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 16288-06 - for ; - Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:55:01 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from voyager.corporate.connx.com (voyager.corporate.connx.com [65.212.159.131]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0636BD1B532 - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:54:58 -0300 (ADT) -Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:54:53 -0700 -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; - charset="us-ascii" -Message-ID: -X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 -Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Thread-Index: AcOP9Fpw1EtLlhHkTKKwePp/YkaQTgBzmnCQ -From: "Dann Corbit" -To: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" -cc: "Christopher Browne" , -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by candle.pha.pa.us id h9DJtkd05408 -Status: OR - -> -----Original Message----- -> From: Jeroen T. Vermeulen [mailto:jtv@xs4all.nl] -> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 5:36 AM -> To: Dann Corbit -> Cc: Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -> -> -> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:37:53PM -0700, Dann Corbit wrote: -> > Why not apply the effort to something already done and compatibly -> > licensed? -> > -> > This: -> > http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html -> > -> > Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed: -> > http://dog.intalio.com/license.html -> > -> > Transaction monitor. -> -> I'd say this is complementary, not an alternative to 2PC -> implementation issues. - -My notion is that the specification has been created that describes how -the system should operate, what the API's are, etc. I think that most -of the work is involved in that area. The notion is that if you program -to this spec, it will already have been well thought out and it should -be standards based when completed. - -> The transaction monitor lives on the other side of the -> problem. 2PC is needed in the database _so that_ the -> transaction monitor can do its job. - -Theoretically, if any database in the chain supports 2PC, you could make -all connected systems 2PC compliant by using the one functional system -as a persistent store. But you are right. PostgreSQL still would need -the "I promise to commit when you ask" method if it is to really support -it. - -I think another way it could be handled is with nested transactions. -Just have the promise phase be an inner transaction commit but have an -outer transaction bracket that one for the actual commit. - -> That said, having a 3-tier model is probably a good idea if -> distributed transaction management is what we want. :-) - -In real life, I think it is _always_ done this way. - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45310@postgresql.org Mon Oct 13 20:18:25 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from www.postgresql.com (209.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.209] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9E0IMd02430 - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:18:23 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71]) - by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP - id 16454CF7280; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:18:12 -0300 (ADT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.2]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F411ED1B538 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:18:09 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [200.46.204.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 73033-02 - for ; - Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:17:39 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from mail.hive.nj2.inquent.com (mc.carriermail.com [205.178.180.9]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA9E8D1B575 - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:17:37 -0300 (ADT) -Received: (qmail 6743 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2003 00:10:32 -0000 -Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.199?) (134.22.69.154) - by 205.178.180.9 with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 00:10:32 -0000 -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -From: Rod Taylor -To: Dann Corbit -cc: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" , - Christopher Browne , - PostgreSQL Development -In-Reply-To: -References: -Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh" -Message-ID: <1066090267.46588.14.camel@jester> -MIME-Version: 1.0 -X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 -Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:11:08 -0400 -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - ---=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh -Content-Type: text/plain -Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -> I think another way it could be handled is with nested transactions. -> Just have the promise phase be an inner transaction commit but have an -> outer transaction bracket that one for the actual commit. - -Not really. In the event of a crash, most 2PC systems will expect the -participant to come back in the same state it crashed in. - -Our nested-transaction implementation (like our standard transaction -implementation) aborts all transactions on crash. - ---=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh -Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part - ------BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- -Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) - -iD8DBQA/iz8a6DETLow6vwwRAs9mAJ0VLew5oH18eL/7BArqWj0H7pYJAwCePLbQ -hpvlKlmUIzIA38T5R62+Ts8= -=xuTB ------END PGP SIGNATURE----- - ---=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh-- - -From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45319@postgresql.org Mon Oct 13 22:15:41 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (70.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.70] (may be forged)) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9E2Fbd17197 - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:15:38 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71]) - by svr4.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP - id B2DC01CB4910; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:15:27 +0000 (GMT) -X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org -Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.2]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22899D1B538 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:15:24 +0000 (GMT) -Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) - by localhost (neptune.hub.org [200.46.204.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) - with ESMTP id 92845-02 - for ; - Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:14:54 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) - by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C8F3D1B515 - for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:14:52 -0300 (ADT) -Received: from dialup-65.58.151.117.dial1.pittsburgh1.level3.net ([65.58.151.117]) - by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) - id 1A9Ehw-0004TJ-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:14:45 -0700 -From: Jordan Henderson -To: Rod Taylor , Dann Corbit -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:13:53 -0400 -User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 -cc: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" , - Christopher Browne , - PostgreSQL Development -References: <1066090267.46588.14.camel@jester> -In-Reply-To: <1066090267.46588.14.camel@jester> -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; - charset="iso-8859-1" -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -Content-Disposition: inline -Message-ID: <200310132213.53751.jordan_henders@yahoo.com> -X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org -X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers -Precedence: bulk -Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org -Status: OR - -On Monday 13 October 2003 20:11, Rod Taylor wrote: -> > I think another way it could be handled is with nested transactions. -> > Just have the promise phase be an inner transaction commit but have an -> > outer transaction bracket that one for the actual commit. -> -> Not really. In the event of a crash, most 2PC systems will expect the -> participant to come back in the same state it crashed in. -> - -Yes, this is correct. There are certain phases of the protocol in which the -transaction state must be re-instated from the log file after a crash of the -DB server. The re-instatement must occur prior to any connections being -accepted by the server. Additionally, the coordinator must be fully -recoverable as well. The coordinator may, depending on the phase of the -commit/abort, contact child servers after it crashes. The requirement is -that during log replay, the transaction structures might have to be fully -reconstructed and remain in-place after log replay has completed, until the -disposition of the (sub)transaction is settled by the coordinator. All -dependent on the phase of course. - -> Our nested-transaction implementation (like our standard transaction -> implementation) aborts all transactions on crash. - -Jordan Henderson - - ----------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- -TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend - -From JanWieck@Yahoo.com Tue Oct 14 00:21:11 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from smtp017.mail.yahoo.com (smtp017.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.114]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h9E4L8d06728 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:21:09 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from pcp01341166pcs.wilog301.pa.comcast.net (HELO europa.janwieck.net) (janwieck@68.80.245.191 with login) - by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 04:21:03 -0000 -Received: from Yahoo.com (pcp01341166pcs.wilog301.pa.comcast.net [68.80.245.191]) - (authenticated) - by europa.janwieck.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9E4L1311359; - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:21:01 -0400 -Message-ID: <3F8B7990.60207@Yahoo.com> -Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:20:32 -0400 -From: Jan Wieck -User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 -X-Accept-Language: en-us, en -MIME-Version: 1.0 -To: Bruce Momjian -cc: Tatsuo Ishii , andrew@libertyrms.info, - pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -References: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us> -In-Reply-To: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us> -Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -Status: OR - -Bruce Momjian wrote: - -> Tatsuo Ishii wrote: ->> > Yes. I don't think that 2PC is a solution for robustness in face of ->> > network failure. It's too slow, to begin with. Some sort of ->> > multi-master system is very desirable for network failures, &c., but ->> > I don't think anybody does active/hot standby with 2PC any more; the ->> > performance is too bad. ->> ->> I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think ->> Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for ->> PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow. -> -> Agreed. Let's get it into 7.5 and see it in action. If we need to -> adjust it, we can, but right now, we need something for distributed -> transactions, and this seems like the logical direction. -> - -Are you guy's kidding or what? - -2PC is not too slow in normal operations when everything is purring like -little kittens and you're just wasting your excess bandwidth on it. The -point is that it behaves horrible and like a dirty backstreet cat at the -time when things go wrong ... basically it's a neat thing to have, but -from the second you need it it becomes useless. - - -Jan - --- -#======================================================================# -# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # -# Let's break this rule - forgive me. # -#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com # - -From peter.galbavy@knowtion.net Tue Oct 14 05:00:23 2003 -Return-path: -Received: from mailstore-1.mail.knowledge.com ([213.170.2.69]) - by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9E90Ld00955 - for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:00:23 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from [213.155.153.61] (helo=MBLOXD98BTT0J) - by mailstore-1.mail.knowledge.com with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) - id 1A9L2A-0004lK-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:02 +0100 -Message-ID: <004601c39231$8db3f5e0$2f28a8c0@cblan.mblox.com> -From: "Peter Galbavy" -To: "Jan Wieck" , "Bruce Momjian" -cc: "Tatsuo Ishii" , , - -References: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us> <3F8B7990.60207@Yahoo.com> -Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit -Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:59:58 +0100 -Organization: Knowtion Ltd. -MIME-Version: 1.0 -Content-Type: text/plain; - charset="Windows-1252" -Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -X-Priority: 3 -X-MSMail-Priority: Normal -X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 -X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 -Status: OR - -Jan Wieck wrote: -> 2PC is not too slow in normal operations when everything is purring -> like little kittens and you're just wasting your excess bandwidth on -> it. The point is that it behaves horrible and like a dirty backstreet -> cat at the time when things go wrong ... basically it's a neat thing -> to have, but from the second you need it it becomes useless. - -I can't see anyone being forced to use it once it maybe/is supported. Like -many tools, "ouch!" is a good reaction when used untrained/incorrectly. - -Peter - -- 2.11.0